ibm and united technologies, two other losers there. 17.4 ibm. the safe havens are the ones trying to hold on. telecom, utilities, healthcare, that is where you are seeing the area that are trying to hold on. on the s&p 500, as i noted, many names are with down arrows. back to you. dagen: thank you. connell: i want to follow-up on the story from the top of the hour about the suspicious package addressed to president obama. the testing has shown it does contain ricin. we have this on top of everything else. i guess the system has worked, though, in terms of the outside facility that they use to scan the mail. we are going to talk about that topic we mentioned just a moment ago. it has reopened the debate, privacy versus safety. dagen: here to debate that is judge andrew napolitano. judge, good to see you. >> good morning. dagen: do we need to worry about encroachment on our privacy just as an aftermath of this bombing? >> yes, we do. there is a natural inclination when they are afraid to reach for safety rather than liberty. in both of those incli